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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Supercharged Lightning Member
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Comp Cams is out of business IIRC...

And what would I need to do to use those Crane Cams above? Im not good with V8 modifications yet...

Ron, im pulling the 351 out of my 96, and plopping in my freebie 460.

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2003 Ford Cobra
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1996 Ford F-350 XLT 4x4
1982 Ford F-150 XL 4x4
1986 Ford F-150 XL 4x4 - Parts Truck
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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Crane 2030 FTW!
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weareweird69 wrote:
Comp Cams is out of business IIRC...


Nope. Crane was out of business for a while but they've re-organized and re-opened.
Everything you need to buy is listed in the catalogues. When in doubt call the tech line; that's why they have one.

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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Unless you're getting a free transmission along with that free 460, you might want to re-think the swap. The one you have will not bolt up. If it's an E4OD it has to be compatible with the PCM for your 460.

Sounds like more work than it's worth to me

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96 F150 6.5' reg. cab, 300 E4OD w/B&M sump, aux cooler and filter, FRPP LSD 3.73 w/alum. cover, Powerslot rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Addco sway bars, Bilstein shocks, 255/70-16s on AR Bajas, Catco converter, 2.5" FM70, Line-X, Sportmasters tonneau, Hella fogs, drivers and backup lights


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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:45 pm 
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he may have kept the E4OD out of his dad's van, but i dont recall.

at the very core, you only need the camshaft and brand new hydraulic flat tappet lifters. never ever reuse old lifters unless it's with the same old cam they were matched to, and even then i still dont like the practice because you have to put every lifter on top of the same exact cam lobe that it was on prior to being removed. cam & lifter kits are rather affordable so i dont reuse old shit.

that being said, some other items that would be a very good idea to replace while you're at it are:

-cam bearings (it's not a need, technically, but i wouldnt do this job without quality brand new ones installed)
-pushrods (not necessarily required if your old ones are in great condition, just clean them thoroughly)
-timing sprockets and a new chain (im fond of double roller)
-distributor gear (those fancy bronze ones arent necessary for this style of cam)
-freeze plugs, since the cam plug in the back is gonna have to come out when you have cam bearings installed (and you are going to have them installed, arent you? arent you?)

since you plow and live in the land of salt, i'd suggest going back with brass freeze plugs and prime/paint the cam plug (they're usually steel, even in a pack where the others are brass) to prevent corrosion and leaks. rocker arms are up to you. if the engine had a lot of miles or if any one of them shows signs of a lot of wear, i'd just replace the whole set. a set of factory style stamped steel rockers is pretty inexpensive, and you can choose to go with stamped steel roller tipped rockers for a little bit more if you desire less wear and parasitic loss due to valvetrain friction. roller tipped rockers do not require roller cams or roller lifters, they can be used with anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Crane 2030 FTW!
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Assuming his truck is over 8500 GVW then even though it's a 96, it still has an EEC-IV and OBD-I which makes backdating the PCM, harness and tranny a little simpler.
The problems around the tranny are:
Pre-95 E4ODs leave something to be desired in the reliability dept
Ford changed the E4OD pinouts in 95 making it a tough line to cross unless he wants to cut and solder the wiring harness. The best bet by far would be to get a 460 PCM and powertrain harness out of a 95.
Also, the tranny out of the van will not have a 4WD tailshaft housing, just one more thing to buy

Given the huge quantity of SBF parts out there, I just question the viability of the swap. I love 460s but there is a time when reality must be allowed to rear its ugly little head.

BTW check out http://www.460ford.com/forum/

_________________
96 F150 6.5' reg. cab, 300 E4OD w/B&M sump, aux cooler and filter, FRPP LSD 3.73 w/alum. cover, Powerslot rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Addco sway bars, Bilstein shocks, 255/70-16s on AR Bajas, Catco converter, 2.5" FM70, Line-X, Sportmasters tonneau, Hella fogs, drivers and backup lights


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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:56 am 
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Location: truck killer state
StrangeRanger wrote:
Unless you're getting a free transmission along with that free 460, you might want to re-think the swap. The one you have will not bolt up. If it's an E4OD it has to be compatible with the PCM for your 460.

Sounds like more work than it's worth to me


Yup, free transmission as well. And ohh i see, I was unaware that Crane went out, and came back, I knew one of them did, but didnt know they came back.

Greasemonkey wrote:
he may have kept the E4OD out of his dad's van, but i dont recall.

at the very core, you only need the camshaft and brand new hydraulic flat tappet lifters. never ever reuse old lifters unless it's with the same old cam they were matched to, and even then i still dont like the practice because you have to put every lifter on top of the same exact cam lobe that it was on prior to being removed. cam & lifter kits are rather affordable so i dont reuse old shit.

that being said, some other items that would be a very good idea to replace while you're at it are:

-cam bearings (it's not a need, technically, but i wouldnt do this job without quality brand new ones installed)
-pushrods (not necessarily required if your old ones are in great condition, just clean them thoroughly)
-timing sprockets and a new chain (im fond of double roller)
-distributor gear (those fancy bronze ones arent necessary for this style of cam)
-freeze plugs, since the cam plug in the back is gonna have to come out when you have cam bearings installed (and you are going to have them installed, arent you? arent you?)

since you plow and live in the land of salt, i'd suggest going back with brass freeze plugs and prime/paint the cam plug (they're usually steel, even in a pack where the others are brass) to prevent corrosion and leaks. rocker arms are up to you. if the engine had a lot of miles or if any one of them shows signs of a lot of wear, i'd just replace the whole set. a set of factory style stamped steel rockers is pretty inexpensive, and you can choose to go with stamped steel roller tipped rockers for a little bit more if you desire less wear and parasitic loss due to valvetrain friction. roller tipped rockers do not require roller cams or roller lifters, they can be used with anything.


Ill have to look into rockers...

-New bearings are a must througout the motor, if im pulling it out, im not gonna just plop it in. It needs new headgaskets, and I may even re-ring it and have it honed. The Motor in question has 134,000 on it, but it ran STRONG, just something was a-miss electronically.
-Im sure the pushrods are fine
-Yes, new timing set, naturally
-has a new distributor and gear already
-If the freezeplugs need removed, then so be it. Also, the cam bearings I wont be installing, I know those can be a major PITA.

Whole motor is going to be dipped, and painted, or at least painted.

StrangeRanger wrote:
Assuming his truck is over 8500 GVW then even though it's a 96, it still has an EEC-IV and OBD-I which makes backdating the PCM, harness and tranny a little simpler.
The problems around the tranny are:
Pre-95 E4ODs leave something to be desired in the reliability dept
Ford changed the E4OD pinouts in 95 making it a tough line to cross unless he wants to cut and solder the wiring harness. The best bet by far would be to get a 460 PCM and powertrain harness out of a 95.
Also, the tranny out of the van will not have a 4WD tailshaft housing, just one more thing to buy

Given the huge quantity of SBF parts out there, I just question the viability of the swap. I love 460s but there is a time when reality must be allowed to rear its ugly little head.

BTW check out http://www.460ford.com/forum/


Yup, 96 F350 - 9000lb GVWR. Which means, no mass air, OR OBD-II Where did the pin-outs change? I didnt think they changed ANYTHING in the harness's?

Im using the guts out of my re-built 96-351 transmission, including electronics, also be using the tailshaft, and housing from it as well. Im going to get an engine harness and computer from a 95-96 F250. Already have one lined up, just waiting for the JY to de-ice, and shovel out from the 5 foot drifts. Going to pull all the accesory brackets, intake tubes, powertrain harness, and computer.

Did I miss anything?

The reason of the swap is as follows:
The 351 in my 96 is dead, it has a miss in it, its underpowered, eats a quart of oil every 200 miles. At first start up, when you go-to-go, not as soon as it fires, but even a few minutes after, it leaves a nice stream of blue smoke. The headers leak on the heads, and the heads are screwed since the stupid jerk broke off all the manifold bolts, and didnt drill them center :pissed Also, it REAKS of oil driving down the road.

The 460 is free, ill pay 200 bucks to swap the trans internals over, and probably 50 bucks for the rest of the 460 items NEEDED. so, for 250 bucks i can swap it. Ill spend up to 1K fixing/modifiying the 460 to my tastes, and plop it in.

The 351 gets 6mpg plowing, and 10mpg hiway. I can get that in a 460, and get twice the power. Im going to tear the 460 down before I even begin buying parts, and get a full list of need to buy items.

I can use the torque converter out of the van as well, its only got about 10-20,000 miles on it. IF That, so thats another thing I dont need to buy. I could probably swap head gaskets, and run this motor if I really wanted to, which, would be kinda dumb since its out.

Im going to try and ween the 351 thru till at least next winter. But we will see how it goes.

_________________
1993 Ford Lightning
2003 Ford Cobra
1995 Ford F-250HD XLT 4x4 PSD
1996 Ford F-350 XLT 4x4
1982 Ford F-150 XL 4x4
1986 Ford F-150 XL 4x4 - Parts Truck
2004 Quality 16ft Car Trailer


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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:28 am 
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Crane 2030 FTW!
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Location: Copley, OH
weareweird69 wrote:
... Where did the pin-outs change? I didnt think they changed ANYTHING in the harness's?...


The pin outs in the connector on the tranny and the matching connector in the harness were revised slightly in 95 along with some internal changes. AFAIK the old connector will still mate up but won't work. As long as the donor is a 95-96 you're OK

_________________
96 F150 6.5' reg. cab, 300 E4OD w/B&M sump, aux cooler and filter, FRPP LSD 3.73 w/alum. cover, Powerslot rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Addco sway bars, Bilstein shocks, 255/70-16s on AR Bajas, Catco converter, 2.5" FM70, Line-X, Sportmasters tonneau, Hella fogs, drivers and backup lights


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 Post subject: Re: Need some help picking a cam out for my 460
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Supercharged Lightning Member
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Location: truck killer state
Awesome, thats good to know.

And, its not hard to change the pin locations in the harness :)

Thanks SR

_________________
1993 Ford Lightning
2003 Ford Cobra
1995 Ford F-250HD XLT 4x4 PSD
1996 Ford F-350 XLT 4x4
1982 Ford F-150 XL 4x4
1986 Ford F-150 XL 4x4 - Parts Truck
2004 Quality 16ft Car Trailer


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